During President Trump's time in office, former FBI Director James Comey and his deputy, Andrew McCabe were chosen for rare IRS audits of their tax returns for 2017 and 2019 respectively. The audits of the two men and their wives are part of a program that randomly selects tax returns to examine compliance and improve the system, according to the IRS website. The odds of being selected for that audit in any given year is around 30,000 to 1. While an IRS spokesperson insisted it is "ludicrous and untrue to suggest that senior IRS officials somehow targeted specific individuals" for such audits, critics believe this move is politically motivated. Daniel Lippman, Reporter at Politico, breaks down the rarity of the audits and the connection to former President Trump.

Opening Bell

IRS Asks Treasury Watchdog to Probe Comey, Mccabe Tax Audits

here to discuss is Daniel lippman reporter at political Daniel, let's just start with the details, Give us the details about this audit and the connection to former president trump. So if you look at James Comey, you know, he was the former FBI director who became a top trump critic because trump had told him, hey you should shut down this Russia investigation. I need your loyalty. He was one of those people who was probed in this I. R. S. Audit and Andrew Mccabe was the deputy FBI director who also became a target of public ire from trump because you know, he was involved in this FBI investigation. Uh and uh you know, these two people wrote books that were severely critical of trump. Uh and so people are raising questions about was this a coincidence or was there some chicanery involved in terms of, you know this this is a pretty rare situation. Alright, so we know that Comey was informed of the audits in 2019 and McCabe learned that he was under scrutiny in 2021. Couple questions here, what did the audits reveal? And is there any chance that these audits are actually a random occurrence? So um you know these audits entail basically you have to kind of prove everything. And so uh they you know, one of them had to even show their christmas family christmas card to show that yes these are my kids, these are, you know in terms of dependence and so uh you have to, you know they had to give Macbook receipts, you know in terms of deductions for work purposes. Uh And so it's really not a pleasant experience. Um And uh is a mechanism to try to ensure that all taxpayers especially wealthy ones who are contributing a lot to the tax rolls don't cheat the system. Uh And so in terms of your other question uh of course it's it's totally possible. It's random. There are coincidences in this world. Um And so it could just be luck of the draw. You know people win lotteries all the time. But I think a lot of democrats and a lot of people say hey we should at least look into this. We can't just trust the I. R. S. Word for it. I'm loving mathematician to do the statistical probability of both Mccabe and Comey getting um audited pretty much around the same time period during an under administration in which they were essentially foes of the then president. That being said I think there's a major question. And is it illegal for anyone in the executive branch? The President maybe in particular here to request the I. R. S. Audit of someone's taxes? Because the audit of Comey Mccabe could seem like evidence that President trump may have succeeded in using the I. R. S. Is a weapon. What's your take. So the uh in the New York Times which broke the story. They kind of did some calculations rough back of the envelope numbers and they saw that they found that the chances of this happening randomly is basically one in 82 million. And so definitely possible. But um, still something that, that's a, that's a big number. Um, And so I think there's a lot of uh, you know, questions about whether this is right and legal. Um, and so I think they're kind of look at email traffic to see if there's anything, you know, in order in order come back to come down from the White House. Uh, and so because we don't want any president or any political party in control of the Rs or the White House, um, you know, kind of the same often, uh, to be ordering tax audits of individual americans based on political reasons that reeks of, you know, third world banana republic. While it's something we certainly don't want. Are there truly any consequences to this, right? If found politically motivated? What's the likelihood that former president trump faces any charges or anything serious happens to him? Because say what you will about him, he's been teflon despite, you know, a lot of apparent maybe misdeeds during his tenure, there's no real consequences. It seems like, yeah, there is, you know, the Manhattan grand jury that, you know, is looking into various trump matters, but I think they'd have to have kind of a smoking gun to prove something improper here. They'd have to basically have someone in the White House, someone at the Treasury Department, Someone in a political appointee position in Rs saying, hey let's go after these guys without that, then um this will go nowhere. Yeah and to your point, certainly there are all these investigations happening, but there is still that big question mark it, what the outcome of these investigations will be, will they just be a you know, pointing to two obvious information at the at this point or actually have some teeth in terms of some sort of consequence? I think that's something I don't know that you can truly answer because it's a matter of us waiting and seeing what is the end result, You know, both in the January six Commission and then certainly even with the Manhattan District Attorney, I. R. S. Commissioner Charles Rettig was appointed by trump to head the agency in 2018. And now the I. R. S. Chief will meet with House panel following news of the Comey mccabe kind of audit, how does this scrutiny affect the reputation of the I. R. S. Because I think if there's anything that's at risk here, it's probably more just the reputation of the I. R. S. Than anything else. Yeah, you don't wanna, you know, the a lot of legitimacy for major institutions in this country, the Media Congress, the White House, the Supreme Court lately has taken a huge hit. And so um I think it's, you know, the I. R. S. Is now under scrutiny. And if it proves that even if nothing comes out, the fact that this happened uh is a red flag to a lot of americans. So you don't want to have a situation where people are just like you know saying let's just ignore paying our taxes because you know the government would not be able to be funded. The government is not going to pay. You know you're not gonna put you know millions of people in jail for that. They don't pay their taxes. And so I think people understand that you pay their taxes, you get services, you get roads uh you get um you know Medicare and Medicaid and so there's just um hopefully it doesn't uh ding the reputation of the Rs too much if it's proved that they didn't do anything wrong. I think that it does point to a branch or department of the government you know being used potentially as as as a weapon. Here is something that is frightened frightful for. I think a lot of american because the reality is there's that saying two things you can't avoid death and taxes right? The I. R. S. Is gonna come after you no matter what. But seeing that the I. R. S. Can potentially be used as a weapon. I think it's a real concerning thing really quickly. I don't know if you were you got some insight on this but what do we know netted as a result of those audits. So I believe that you know one of the individuals that you know I can't remember at the top of my head, I had to pay back. You know I had to pay an extra couple $100 and then another um you know either Comey and Mccabe got you know a $1500 check from the R. S. You know some things are improperly calculated but that's just the normal course of business. And so it's kind of ironic that they this big audit. Um and they had to give back money which then goes to taxpayer dollars being used potentially here um for for not the right reasons because the time that it takes and to do one of these audits, I imagine it is pretty intense although you don't know you know the start of it if you know someone's cheating their taxes but these were FBI officials, they're like they know the law better than most. They know, you know these are people who wear white shirts. I'm not wearing a white shirt. But you know if I had one like to to feel moral and to act the right way, even though Comey got criticism from democrats for almost giving the election to trump with that letter about Anthony weiner 10 days before really quickly before I let you go hear what happens next. You know this is a story, it's it's breaking where we're here or not. It's breaking but it's getting more traction now what happens next. So you know the internal the inspector general I believe is looking into this for the I. R. S. Or Treasury and then you have the you know, house democrats who are examining as well to see if there's anything improper here. So I think that'll take a while of digging into these documents and interviewing the relevant people. Alright. Daniel, such great insight, really appreciate your time and all of the inside Daniel lippman, reporter at politico.