Spencer Kornhaber, staff writer at The Atlantic, joins Cheddar News to discuss the latest in the Joe Rogan and Spotify controversy. 

Between Bells

Joe Rogan-Spotify Saga: Should the Company Moderate Content? 

Welcome back to Between Bells everybody. The Joe Rogan situation at Spotify keeps growing and growing. Yesterday, Neil Young posted on his website. That Spotify Spotify Spotify. Excuse me, employees should leave the company before the company eats their souls. It's Young's latest stance against the company. After pulling his music from the app claiming he was spreading fake information about vaccines through Joe Rogan's podcast. The entire situation poses a bigger question surrounding Spotify and of course misinformation on the app, joining us now to discuss the Spencer, corn haber staff writer at the Atlantic who wrote an article about all this, including the debate. Spencer, Welcome to the show. So Spotify says it is not responsible for moderating content on its platform by taking this approach. Do you think the company is headed down a slippery slope here? Well, there's this um way of talking about this controversy that makes it seem like a free speech issue or about who gets to have a platform. But Neil Young's comments brought to light the way that Spotify has changed its business model in the past few years to really not just be a kind of neutral distributor to different uh Artists and performers and commentators, but they are paying Joe Rogan $100 million dollars reportedly to um exclusively broadcast on their platform. And so uh that shift in there and they're kind of business operations has put them in this position where it's not just about allowing people to speak on the platform, but they really are standing behind uh their talent. So Spotify is has paid Joe Rogan a lot of money. there are a lot of listeners, I believe he's the number one podcast on the platform? How do they keep benefiting by keeping Rogan's platform? Well, they clearly believe that he's a big draw and they might be right about that. They also run ads on his podcast and you know, bringing money from that. And so there's a real cost benefit analysis. They have to run about whether the publicity around the situation and the and the prospect of losing some users and some some artists who are on the platform uh is more costly than the, than what he's bringing in. Why is Joe Rogan's podcast for our viewers that may not listen to him, Why is it so popular here a sponsor? That's the $100 million question. But you know, Joe Rogan has been in the commentary landscape for many years now and he's kind of really built this unique brand where he reaches um a lot of young men and men in particular who maybe aren't being spoken to uh in a, in a way that they feel um you know, he speaks their language in a way that maybe the mainstream media isn't quite doing that. And um you know, he is, he is, he is hosting a kind of salon for different kinds of commentators and some of them are rather extreme and that has brought in this controversy, but it also kind of has brought him the edge that makes people tune in some believe Spotify should act more like a media company simply because they pay for content. Do you think that's a fair assumption? Do you think that's fair to say? Spencer? Well it's a tricky thing to do is to become a media company. And I don't think Spotify would say that it wants to be seen as a media company. But when you're paying um a lot of money for exclusive rights to broadcast big names, you essentially are playing that role of of of curating a roster of talent like you know, like a news network or publication is. And when you start doing that you start having to exert some editorial standards and maybe they don't want to have those standards, but the users will start to expect them to be um yeah, exerting some control and so they may not want to be seen as having that control because it creates a lot of responsibility for them. But um when people like Neil young and Joni Mitchell standing up and drawing their attention, drawing people's attention to the situation, it seems like they are going to have to write down some policies about what they're allowing to be set on their platform. Joni Mitchell in D R. E. Have all said they would leave Spotify, we heard the Obama's are shopping around, We've heard a similar situation for Harry and Meghan. Do you think we'll see this the movement of not just musical artists but just popular podcast on Spotify, looking to leave this platform? Well, it's a that is a good question. I imagine that there's a way that Spot, if it comes out of this seeming like they have made some reforms and done some moves to placate critics without really um without, without fully ditching someone like joe Rogan and gives people enough space on the platform to still participate in it while um you know, maintaining their their conscientiousness. I imagine that could be okay. It could be an outcome because the deal the deal is that Spotify has a lot of money and they're willing to spend a lot of money on talent. And so for people to walk away because of a little controversy uh certainly is not, it's not a it's not a foregone conclusion that that will happen. Does this entire situation poses a bigger question surrounding whether companies should be held responsible for moderating content on platforms and the way social media sites do, or do you think it is fair to hold companies liable going further? Yeah, I mean if if twitter and facebook are having to regulate their content these days and you know, and are taking um you know, rather strong moves such as putting someone like donald trump off their platforms. It sort of follows that Spotify should be um is in the same realm and why would they be subject to different standards, especially when they are paying creators to be exclusively on their platform? Spencer corn? Hey, we're a staff writer at the atlantic. You can read Spencer's articles about the Neil Young and Spotify saga at the atlantic dot com. We appreciate your time. Thank you Spencer.